Kids Sea Camp Archieven - Page 8 of 10

Paul Zanelli: Diving back into life

22 October 202618 January 2018 by Tom Peyton

Special needs, Handicapped divers, Kids Sea Camp, Assisted diving, Family Dive Adventures, Scuba Diving, Kids Sea Camp, Kids and scuba

Diving, no matter what

I am Paul Zanelli, a volunteer fireman and EMT for over 35 years, a husband, father, and now an amputee. I had spent 33 days confined to a hospital bed after crushing my right foot during a home project.

A tough morning

When I opened my eyes the morning of December 23, 2016, minus a leg. Looking up at the hospital room TV to see a one-legged superstar running a Spartan race. It was as if God were trying to show me a new world of possibilities. Christmas was spent in the hospital with my family and friends. So many people came to visit, and as much joy as that brought me, it was hard to see the pain and sorrow in their eyes. I was out of pain! Thinking to myself, I did not need them to feel sorry for me. So I became determined to stay strong and lead a normal life.

I came home from the hospital on December 27 with equal measures of hope and fear. One of the first people to reach out to me was Margo Peyton, owner of Kids Sea Camp, and her call was the start of a new and wonderful relationship with her, my family, and diving.

The KSC solution

I met Margo and her husband, Tom Peyton, the year before at Kids Sea Camp (KSC) in Roatan, Honduras. It had been a dream come true for us. Cindy Zanelli and I were avid divers for over a decade, but after having children, dive trips were replaced with Disney and water parks.

We stumbled upon KSC when the kids turned 10 and wanted to dive too. In Roatan, we dove and made friends with other adults, while the kids were getting certified and making friends of their own. It felt great for all of us to finally be diving together. We planned to dive, which is a big part of our lives, and had booked another KSC trip for Spring Break 2017 in Dominica, at the Fort Young Hotel and Buddy Dive Dominica.

While lying in the hospital bed in December, the doctors told me there was no way that I would be diving in April. It was only 4 months away, so I sadly told my wife to cancel our family vacation, and in perfect Cindy form, she said NO!

We are going diving

Keeping that trip scheduled was one of the best decisions ever. The Zanelli family needed this trip. I wanted to show my kids (and myself) that life would be as good or better than before. And what made it all come together was this unexpected call from Margo. She had been following my story on Facebook, with lots of love and prayers throughout.

Margo called to tell me she had made all the arrangements for me with a handicap room, an HSA instructor, some big, strong dive guides to help me in and out of the water, and anything else I could possibly need to make this work. She even arranged the land excursions that ensured no far walks for me or a path where I could be driven to the top of the fort or waterfalls. To top it all off, she even purchased me a Sub Gravity underwater scooter through her not-for-profit foundation, Oceanwishes.org.

Margo the problem solver

The scooter was small, compact, and easy to use. It could be used with one or two arms. The scooter provided assistance diving if I got tired, and was a whole lot of fun. Margo loves challenges and is one of the most loving people I have ever met. She proudly proclaimed, “Paul, we got this!” and with that, launched me into getting back in shape and continuing to plan our dream dive trip to Dominica.

Margo and I connected in NJ at the Beneath the Sea Dive Show in March. She was elated to see me walking with my new prosthetic leg and introduced me to ‘Dive Heart’ to get neutrally buoyant fins to fit my new foot. I was excited about the Scuba Pro fins and meeting some great people who were already doing what I was still dreaming about.

Diving in Dominica

We arrived in Dominica just 4 months after my surgery. I was walking on my new prosthetic, carrying the underwater scooter, and a swim prosthetic (Aqua Leg) strapped to my backpack. Fort Young Hotel was beautiful and located right on the water, with our room overlooking the ocean. Buddy Dive was ready and waiting for me. I spent the first full day trying out my new Aqua leg, learning to use my new dive gear, and getting comfortable diving. Niels, who runs Buddy Dive, was ready to assist in any way, so I jumped in for a checkout dive off the dock. That was the greatest feeling in the world, my friends. I cannot describe the freedom and joy I felt getting back in the water and descending to depth, and diving again. After my awesome check-out dive, it was game on!

I had my family around me, and that family now included the Whites and the Peyton’s. The Zanelli family just got bigger. We were so fortunate to have the friends we met last year in Roatan, Jay & Lisa White, and their boys, reconnect with us in Dominica. They brought an extra scooter and a shared passion for hunting Lionfish. Cindy, Lisa, and Margo were focusing on underwater photography, and the kids were scootering around together and having a blast. Life was great again!

‘We Got This’ mentality.

Buddy Dive in Dominica accommodates every level of diver, and it was easy for the kids and me. We enjoyed diving with adults on our own boats in the mornings, then diving as a family in the afternoons. We had fun looking for Sperm whales, and I even jumped off the top of the Buddy Express boat with all the kids! Abby and JAZ took a digital photo class with Margo and shot some amazing underwater images. We ate fresh Lionfish fritters and ceviche each night.

Margo and Tom always put safety first, and that made our trip stress-free. It was just what my soul needed, and all made possible by Next Step Orthopedics and Kids Sea Camp’s ‘We Got This’ mentality.

It was hard to say goodbye, but we are busy planning our next KSC trip to Belize next March! The Zanelli family will be back in the water!

Story by Paul Zanelli, father, husband, diver, EMT, fireman, and all-around inspirational human being. See Paul’s profile in Sport Diver.

Utila, Kids Sea Camp poems

15 July 20262 December 2017 by Tom Peyton

Poems from Kids Sea Camp weeks in Utila

Here are the poems from the Kids Sea Camp weeks in Utila. Kids Sea Camp has a poetry presentation every Friday night at the closing celebration.

Perfect 10

By The Ward family

Oh, beautiful Utila, what an adventure you’ve been,
Laguna Beach resort has earned a “perfect 10.”
The whole staff was so kind, the crew second to none,
Underwater or on land we couldn’t have had more fun.
Critters and creatures everywhere, with no rhyme or reason,
They even found us Whale sharks and it’s not even the season.
The mosquitoes and no-see-ums tried to spoil our dives,
But the Zombie Apocalypse had them running for their lives.
Every dive was amazing, there’s no way we couldn’t win,
Kids Sea Camp Utila, we can’t wait to do it again!

Whale Shark

By Annie Myron

Whale shark, Whale shark
What do you see?
I see a human snorkeling by me.
Whale shark, Whale shark spots to and fro,
Whale shark where did you go?

Utilean Waters

By the Schaffer family

Up from the depths of the Utilean waters,
A majestic spotted beast glides past.
Up on deck of the boat, we sought her,
Mask, fins, and snorkel put them on fast.
Jump into the water and follow her down,
Hold our breaths with cameras steady.
Aim, point, and shoot for the best picture in town
But if you blink your eyes, she will be gone already.

Passport in pocket

By The Myron family

Come, divers, come snorkels,
All family and friends.
It’s off to Kids Sea Camp,
Where the fun never ends.
Passport in pocket,
Dive bag in hand.
The adventure begins,
When our feet touch the sand.
A sweetheart named Margo,
Is there from the start.
A smile so big,
And a magnificent heart.
A bold guy named Woody,
Takes our kids for a dive.
We all think ourselves,
Please bring’em back alive.
A Whale shark, a seahorse,
Our week comes to an end.
We leave Laguna Beach resort
Having made a new friend.
She walks on four legs,
And Coco’s her name.
She surely belongs,
In the Dog Hall of Fame.

UTILA

By the Tappero family

U: Unlimited fun diving, fishing, kayaking, horseback riding and four-wheeling.
T: Terrific times seeing whale sharks, rays, turtles, eels and many exotic fish. Special Thanks to all who work for Laguna Beach resort for all the hard work and great service this week.
I: Intense pressure, learning the Zombie Dive and Water signs. Thanks to Woody and Kevin for all the hard work.
L: Landing and having fun with all the interesting families from all over the world. Hope we see you all again at another Kids Sea Camp.
A: Awesome time on a great vacation, thanks to Margo for all the hard work to make this such a wonderful vacation for all of us.

Kids Sea Camp Bonaire: Diving for The Teens

22 October 20262 December 2017 by Tom Peyton

Teen diver, Kids and Scuba, Bonaire, Kids Sea Camp

I can’t wait to go back

Although this was my second time participating in the Teen Diver group during Kids Sea Camp Bonaire, it was still an awesome week. I saw a lot of things I hadn’t seen in the water last year, and going back to the donkey sanctuary was pretty sweet. And even though Bonaire is a small island, I am never bored there, and I can’t wait to go back again.

The diving was really cool, yet again. There were many fish, and the water was warm and clear. I even had the experience of seeing my first manta. It was also nice to see Charlie the Tarpon again. That’s certainly one way to know you are at Buddy Dive in Bonaire.

Meeting new friends

While in Bonaire, I was able to see my old friends and make a few new ones. If you are a teenager and you’re sick of your friends back home (no offense to all of you), Kids Sea Camp is the place to be. You are guaranteed to make friends, especially in Bonaire, where many families go (mainly because it is the cheapest Kids Sea Camp, and what parents don’t like is going diving for as little money as possible?). The other good thing about Kids Sea Camp Bonaire and being a teen diver is that you are ALWAYS with your new friends. That is what makes Kids Sea Camp so much fun.

Bonaire is a great place for teens, especially for a Kids Sea Camp, because school just ended. I like to think of it as a way to celebrate the end of the school year. If you treat Bonaire like a celebration for any occasion, you and your friends are sure to have a great time.

Buddy Dive is a great place for us teens to have a good time because there is a lot for us to do at the resort, and there is a really good ice cream store two blocks away. Who doesn’t like good ice cream on a hot Caribbean day? We can also go swimming (pool or ocean) and jump off cliffs into the water (tell your parents it isn’t THAT high, but it’s high enough to get some good hang time).

Rogest

This year, we had the experience of Ron Steven (better known as Rogest) coming to Bonaire. Although Ron seems like the kind of guy who would appeal more to five-year-olds, I think he is one of the coolest people you can have a vacation with. He is funny, he will make you a better artist, and he is just a great source of entertainment. He also likes to embarrass you in a funny way that won’t make you too mad; you’ll end up laughing.

I would recommend Kids Sea Camp Bonaire to all of you teen divers. It is a fun place, and the diving is great whether you have been certified for 5 years or are still a beginner diver. And to the parents who have never been to Bonaire, it’s a fun place for you, too. Don’t even worry about your teens during the day, Buddy Dive and Kids Sea Camp make sure we are all safe and having a great time.

By: Ryan Seltz

How Kids Sea Camp has changed my life

15 July 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

Life-changing moments at Kids Sea Camp happen every day

Kids Sea Camp is one of the greatest programs I have ever participated in. The week is a wonderful, life-changing event like nothing I have ever seen. I thoroughly enjoy seeing young kids learn to dive right next to their parents and siblings. It has enriched my life greatly because, through Kids Sea Camp, I have learned amazing skills, met new friends, and grown closer to my family.

Kids Sea Camp, life-changing, kids and diving, family vacations

The first reason Kids Sea Camp has enriched my life is the skills I have learned each camp week. My first trip was Grand Cayman, where I learned proper diving techniques, and how vital underwater conservation is. I discovered underwater photography and first aid skills. In 2016, I became a Dive Master at Buddy Dive, Bonaire Kids Sea Camp week with Woody Tinsley. I learned about the science behind diving, what people look for in a leader, how to deal with people in distress, and I learned so many new skills and how to teach them. The knowledge I have gained at Kids Sea Camp has enriched my life.

Another reason is the friends I have met each year. Thanks to Kids Sea Camp, I have friends all over the world. I have met many amazing people at Kids Sea Camp and made more amazing memories than I can count. There are always other kids my age, and diving with other kids is so much fun. It is easy to make new friends, but I enjoy creating exciting new memories with my family and other adult divers. An example of that is when Tom Peyton and I were in Fiji, we kept all the families and kids entertained and had fun with me playing the guitar and him singing. There is even a Karaoke night on the KSC weeks. We also played volleyball every afternoon.

One of my favorite Kids Sea Camp Instructors is Woody Tinsley, he is hilarious and so much fun. Woody teaches the Zombie Apocalypse PADI course and was my Instructor for my PADI Dive Master Course. Mr. Tinsley made sure that I learned every skill perfectly. He is the kind of instructor I hope to be like one day. Woody is only one of the instructors on the great team at Kids Sea Camp. I can honestly say some of the most extraordinary people I have ever met, I met through Kids Sea Camp.

The final reason Kids Sea Camp has enriched my life is that it has helped me grow closer to my own family through travel and diving together. At our first Kids Sea Camp, my sister had never dived before and had no interest in learning. I was able to convince her to try to overcome her fear. After she was certified, she, I, and our whole family love diving and traveling with Kids Sea Camp and Margo & Tom.

“My life is forever changed and enriched because of Kids Sea Camp and I love to travel and dive and will continue to do so for many more years to come. I hope to become a dive instructor and work for Kids Sea Camp so I can become a part of enriching other people lives too. Kids Sea Camp is truly life-changing!” — James Devinney

What is even more special in my eyes is being able to dive with my little brother, Jason. He has a passion for the sport, just like the rest of our family, and there is nowhere else in the world I can think of that will teach someone his age to dive. Jason is currently a PADI Seal and gets to dive in the ocean with the Kids Sea Camp. We would have usually had to split up our family and not have been able to include Jason. At Kids Sea Camp, I get to dive with my little brother and the whole family together. So, Kids Sea Camp has enriched my life and my entire family’s lives.

Any family would clearly see how amazing Kids Sea Camp is. I think it’s one of the most fantastic family vacations in the world! It gets families to unplug and reconnect with each other through adventure and fun. It makes me grateful for my family and the smiles and memories we create together. I wish there were more people like Tom and Margo because they make the world a better place. Margo has a passion for kids, diving, and the ocean, and she loves teaching kids and family members to dive and love the ocean from the age of 5.

By James Devinney

Fiji time and Kids Sea Camp magic

22 October 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

Fiji: The reunion tour 2015!

It has been a while since Margo and I were in Fiji. We were there in 2009 at the wonderful Castaway Island resort on the Island of Malolo. Fiji was the start of this grand Kids Sea Camp adventure, Margo, and I have been on since we met ten years ago this coming February. It is our honeymoon island.

Margo and Tom Peyton celebrated their first year in Fiji in 2007 at the Castaway Resort. For Tom, a lot fewer gray hairs and wrinkles eight years ago. Margo, an amazing ageless wonder still looks gorgeous today.

Fiji is a cherished place for us. A place of deep connectivity to the vast blue vistas and complete centering silence of the islands. It is, indeed, a special trip for the Peytons. It is a place where time seems to slow way down, you stop worrying, you ponder the distant future far less, you enjoy the sunset just a little bit more, and you can feel the stress of our normal, crazy everyday life leaving your body. Margo and I call this phenomenon “Fiji Time.”

Margo has also called it “kava time” but that a whole different story.

Fiji is also a smile factory — as the Fijians always seem to be happy, so helpful and incredibly gracious to the visitors that travel to their stunning country. In fact, “welcome home” is a common phrase the Islanders use in their first greetings to tourists.

“Welcome Home,” how many times have you used that phrase when strangers arrive in your abode — probably very not often. And like a “home away from home,” it has a habit of creating connecting points that change the “vacation” to something much larger — something deeper. I have lost track how many Kids Sea Camp families have left Fiji with tears in their eyes. Tears of joy of being so welcomed by the Fijian people. Tears of a remembering of how good we all can be — if we try — just a little. It is a special place for our KSC families.

And as the countdown in the office starts for the new Fiji week at Beqa Lagoon Resort this year. I can’t stop myself from hoping and wondering if “Fiji Time” will sweep over the two KSC weeks and make some more Kids Sea Camp magic. I know I’m looking forward to it.

Tom Peyton, Vice President of Kids Sea Camp

Tips for better buoyancy and air consumption

14 May 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

Buoyancy, Kids Sea camp, scuba training for kids

Keys to better diving

Good buoyancy is key. Make sure you are neutrally buoyant, trim your gear so nothing is hanging or dragging below you, and try to evenly distribute your weights. 4lb on the left, then 4lb on the right. Move them around, ankle weights are also used, I use 1lb on each ankle when diving with my camera. Some BC’s, like my ScubaPro Lady Hawk, have pockets up high in the back. I often put a 1 lb in each of those pockets. A Peak performance buoyancy class will be a fun continuing education class, as it will teach you more about good buoyancy control.
Breathe slowly and deeply when you’re diving; don’t ever hold your breath. Short and shallow breaths can be dangerous and create dead air spaces.

Gear is important

Streamline your gear and have property-fitting equipment, nothing dangling or dragging. Make sure your equipment is in good working order and has been serviced regularly by your local dive shop.
Use proper kick cycles and don’t swim while diving (no hands needed). Make sure you’re using Scuba fins, not snorkel fins. Dive fins should be longer and fit comfortably. Go to your local dive shop and try on a few pairs. Some adults like me prefer full-foot fins; for kids, I recommend fins with straps for growing feet.
Make sure to be suited up as conditions dictate. Stay warm, choices of a shorty or long wet-suit, 2 mm, 3 mm, 5 mml and more are available depending on the temperature of the water your diving. In the Galapagos, I use a 5- or 7-mm long suit; in Bonaire, I use a 2-mm shorty. New wetsuits are more buoyant than older ones, and thickness makes a big difference as well. The thicker the suit, the more weight is needed. Long suits will require more weight than a shorty.

Be in good condition

Be in good physical health, and never dive when you’re not feeling well. Always consult your doctor about any medications you’re taking, as they could have different effects while diving. Make sure to fill out waivers truthfully so that, if something does happen, it will be easier to determine what is going on and to provide help faster and more efficiently.
Dive often. The more you dive, the more confident and comfortable you will become, and buoyancy will become easier.

Be a good buddy

Stay close to your buddy. Constantly chasing your buddy can use up more air on a dive and create stress.
Dive into a current at the start of a dive when you are not tired, so you can then dive with the current returning at the end of your dive. Make sure not to dive in strong currents. Check with your local dive shop or dive professional before entering the water to determine safe dive conditions. Always let someone know you are going diving, and never dive alone.

Relax, it’s just diving

Relax, enjoy your dive. Take only photos, leave only bubbles. Observe marine life and don’t touch anything living.
Take an advanced open water class, which covers a navigation dive, a deep dive, a buoyancy dive, a night dive, a photography dive, and a Fish ID dive. All of which will make you feel more confident in your direction, buoyancy, and knowledge of marine life, allowing you to feel more comfortable diving. There are other specialty dives you can take in an Advanced Open Water Class, such as Underwater Naturalist, Wreck, or even zombie dives. Visit www.padi.com for more information about courses.
Don’t overthink air consumption; the more you think about it, the more anxious you become, and the fewer chances there are for relaxation.
Take your family diving and enjoy diving with your kids. They will look to you as role models and strive to dive as you do. Be a good role model.

Have fun and be safe! I look forward to diving with you.

by Margo Peyton, President of Kids Sea Camp, PADI Instructor #57474

Travel Channel loves Kids Sea Camp

3 June 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

Kids and scuba, best dive vacations, kids sea camp, travel channel

Travel Channel: Kids Sea Camp is one of the best adventures in the world.

Kids Sea Camp at Anse Chastanet in St. Lucia was named one of the “best family adventures” in 2015 by the Travel Channel. Kids Sea Camp is not only for divers. Our week is just a great family vacation.

The Travel Channel: Families from around the world who share a love for the ocean should head to St. Lucia for an unforgettable vacation at Kids Sea Camp. Family Dive Adventures offers this 6-day/7-night itinerary, hosted by the top-ranked resort Anse Chastanet, which provides the best accommodations, fine dining, and activities on the island.

“That’s as young as 10 years old can acquire certification to scuba dive. Even Four-year-olds can get in the water at Kids Sea Camp,” says Rainer Jenss, president and founder of the Family Travel Association.

“That’s great news for parents who thought they’d have to give up diving when the kids were born.” In between dives, guests can hike through an 18th-century ruin of an old sugar plantation or take a ride on a mountain bike through the rainforest.

Kids Sea Camp is Elite!

8 June 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

. . .and so is Margo Peyton

Margo Peyton has been awarded a PADI Elite Instructor award for 2014. To receive the award, an instructor must have over 150 certifications during the calendar year. PADI’s award is in recognition of outstanding accomplishment in PADI Diver Training. The number of certifications attained by Margo during the Kids Sea Camp training weeks was 282 in 2014. Kids Sea Camp contributed 402 new certifications in 2014, bringing the running 14-year total to 5402. That’s a lot of new divers!

“I’m honored that PADI is seeing all the wonderful work we are doing, getting children and their families diving together. It’s a personal joy of mine. I would love to get everyone I meet under the water and experience diving. I can honestly say I think everyone would be a happier and healthier person if they all learned to dive.

Margo Peyton is awarded her first PADI Elite Dive Instructor award.

I also want to thank PADI for all the support since the very beginning of Kids Sea Camp, some 15 years ago. They have also been there for me and my little company, helping us in any way they can.”

Margo Peyton, founder and owner of Kids Sea Camp and Family Dive Adventures

Kids Sea Camp in the Top 10!

15 July 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

Kids Sea Camp in USA Today’s 10 best!

KSC is ranked number #2 in a recent USA Today poll of the most thrilling camps in the world! We are ranked among the best adventures for the tiniest travelers. From the offices of Kids Sea Camp, we would add that the biggest travelers also enjoy the camps.

Because we’re all kids at a Kids Sea Camp week! The online article mentions Bonaire, Buddy Dive only — but we all know how many weeks and the islands we go to over the course of the year. All the weeks are great for the diving family on holiday.

Our families have always known KSC as the best-kept secret in the world, but no more. The public has voted! Kids Sea Camp is a perfect vacation you can take your family!

Kids Sea Camp was also named one of the “Top 10 in the world for families” by the Travel Channel in 2015.

See what NBC had to say about us! (See link)

Toothpaste and new dive mask

22 October 202623 March 2017 by Tom Peyton

Preparing a new dive mask

The foggy mask: I had a client buy a new dive mask this week, and I told him to make sure to rub toothpaste on both sides of the mask lens before jumping into the water. It will help prevent the lens from fogging up.

He then asked a very simple question, “Why?”

I had no answer for him—I said it was tradition. He then asked, “But why is it the tradition?

I smiled and thought to myself how living with a Hall of Famer who really is a diving professor, Professor Margo of the department of Oceanic Adventures at Kids Sea Camp, makes me a little dumb at times. I have watched Margo put toothpaste in our new dive masks for years — she even puts it in the old ones at the beginning of the summer. And the dumb part — I never once asked why. Not once did I ask why we are putting something I put on my teeth every day on an item that has no teeth? I just knew that when she didn’t use the toothpaste, my mask would fog up — very quickly — and I hate a foggy mask.

One good thing about myself is that once I realize just how stupid I’m acting or thinking, I tend correct my behavior, and I do this by gathering information. So here’s why my Oceanic Professor puts toothpaste on the lens of our mask almost every year, at the beginning of our diving season— new or not.

Toothpaste is a mild abrasive

Most newer masks, frames, skirts, and straps are made of silicone, which creates a film on the mask’s lens. The film on the lens blocks the defog from working properly. In fact, if the silicone residue is not removed, any amount of defogging work on the lens.

After the toothpaste

After you have cleaned off the toothpaste and you are heading to the boat, make sure to have some defog. There are many brands, and with the silicon residue removed, most of them will work. The fact of the matter is, all the dive boats have some form of defog, though most use a watered-down J&J baby shampoo.

Other forms of defogging

Spit: Real divers don’t use defog; they spend a lot of time draining their mouths, building up a large quantity of saliva, and projecting it into their masks. Many divers say this is the best form of defog, but the idea of my eyes breathing in all the wonderful germs from my mouth — just doesn’t work for me.

SeaDrops: Clean, quick, and easy to use — a few drops on the inside and the outside of the mask has gotten me close to a decade of “no fog” mask. Just remember to wash the drops out right before you jump off the boat. If you don’t clean the drops out of the mask properly, you could experience a severe burning sensation in your eyes — and the eye burn can really ruin a great dive. Why? Because all defog is a form of soap. That’s why most dive boats and shops use J&J Baby Shampoo — it’s easier on the eyes.

Burn it off: Don’t do this at home unless you know a professional mask burner who has done it many times. You are basically burning off the thin film that protects the new lens. The danger, of course, is burning the entire soft silicone that makes your new mask so darn comfortable.

After the dive

Hit the dunk tank: Make sure you use freshwater to clean off all your dive equipment. Almost all our family of divers dunk their BCs in the sweetwater tub, but I have watched numerous divers forgo a quick rinse of their fins, mask, snorkel, and wetsuit. Remember, a clean mask doesn’t fog up as much, and clean gear lasts longer.